Storm
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Post by Storm on Jul 8, 2006 9:13:18 GMT
Don't seem to remember The Ice Warriors - but I googled up some pictures - hmm, interesting look! They look like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Wonder if the Ice Warriors kick ass too?! I see the TMNT resemblance now you mention it, although I think the design was meant to look like a kind of snake skin. They also talk in a hoarse, hissing whisper, which is probably for the same effect. Do they kick ass? Well, they look quite tough, and they're certainly intimidating by the standards of 60's costumes, but they still suffer from classic Dr Who monster 'walking-very-slowly-while-swaying-from-side-to-side-a-lot' TM disorder. |
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Post by jasmine on Jul 8, 2006 17:34:12 GMT
“walking very slowly while swaying from side to side”
“also talk in a hoarse, hissing whisper”
Drunk and disorderly monsters by the sound of them!!
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jul 8, 2006 18:47:40 GMT
Notes:
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6 minutes in. The showdown we've waited thirty years for begins with a slow, bitchy, out-of-character, but surprisingly amusing taunt-fest between the Cyberleader and the Supreme Dalek.
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9 minutes in. Tracy-Ann dies without a scream, which is impressive, but after a heavily-contrived speech about "I did my duty."
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10 minutes in, and Jake arrives smiling smugly about being a Slider.
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12 minutes in. The Genesis Ark is from Gallifrey. Another revelation genuinely makes me jump.
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16 minutes in, and I'm again finding RTD's back-referencing his old episodes rather annoying.
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17 minutes in. ARCADIA!!! You got a mention... um, sort of. *Ahem!*
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20 minutes in. The battle begins! And it's spectacular. But Mickey, you fool! You've opened the Ark. Although the Doctor kisses him for it. Errr...
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22 minutes in. More blatant slush 'n' mush when Jackie meets para-Pete.
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24 minutes in. Aren't these Cybermen wimps?
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25 minutes in. Of course! The Ark is a TARDIS, a prison ship no less! Amazing idea, although I'm not convinced the Time Lords would bother with POWs during the Time War.
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27 minutes in. For God's sake, will they get rid of those bloody stupid 3D glasses?
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30 minutes in, and I'm wondering why the Daleks are leaving the Torchwood Tower alone even while they blow the rest of the Earth to bits.
And I reckon Rose is going to die after all.
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34 minutes in.
So she didn't die and I was right all along; she lives out her life on the other Earth.
There are all manner of logic errors in that scene, which I'll list in the review I do later, but it was still pretty awesome, and for once, the resolution wasn't a blatant deus ex/sorcery get-out by RTD.
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38 minutes in. A supernova's gonna burn up very soon anyway!
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39 minutes. NORWAY! That's a bit... crazy. Oh, and please, enough with the Bad Wolf references! All the Torchwood stuff this year's been bad enough without bringing that back...
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41 minutes. I knew he'd vanish before he could say it! Such a movie cliche.
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Well that was a moving farewell scene, if a little over-long, but why did they have to ruin the effect by throwing Catherine Tate in at the end like that? Cheapness! Cheapness!
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Anyway, much better resolution than last year's end of season, and it looks to me like the Supreme Dalek is still at large on 'our' Earth.
Full review later.
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Post by jasmine on Jul 8, 2006 19:41:05 GMT
I really enjoyed tonights viewing. I wept buckets.
And if anyone trashes it - I have a noose waiting.
*smiles sweetly and exits*
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jul 8, 2006 21:00:12 GMT
Doomsday has been and gone, and we're still here, so let's be glad.
I mean that in fact. I'll give Russell T. Davies credit here, as it's definitely his best Dr Who story so far. It's still got plenty of flab and mushy dialogue, but it's a tighter script than, say, Aliens Of London ever was. And yes, I was genuinely moved when Rose said goodbye. (It seems she won't even get the chance to go and have that tea with Sarah Jane.)
The enormous, Earth-shaking (literally) war between the Daleks and the Cybermen is not handled perfectly; it sort of turns into background fill while the Tyler gang say their final farewells over and over, which seems strange and unconvincing. In fact, the Cybermen have all-but-vanished from the storyline long before the battle is over. (On that note, the Cybermen are shown to be utterly helpless here, far too weak to be taken seriously any more. Although it may be that Cybermen from the Parallel Earth are just an inferior model to the Cybermen of Mondas.)
The opening exchange between the Dalek Supreme and the Cyberleader is too witty and cutting for me to slag off, but there's no getting away from the fact that it's between two robots who - especially the Dalek - are behaving out-of-character. Such macho, "My-army's-tougher-than-your-army-no-my-army's-tougher-than-yours" taunting is just not how Daleks or Cybermen would behave. To be fair, the Kaleds were a little like that, and as they're what the Daleks evolved from, I suppose you can stretch yourself to believe it. But if you want to believe it, you have to stretch yourself, which is just not right. Equally, the Cybermen's bitchy taunt about the Daleks lacking "elegance" sounds like an exchange between Alexis Colby and Crystal Carrington lifted from Dynasty. The Dalek's line about the Cybermen being superior at dying was a good one though, and more in keeping with how a Dalek would speak.
The Genesis Ark sounded like a really classic sorcerer's wand of a plot device when it was mentioned in last week's teaser, and I was fearing the worst for it. As it turned out, a Gallifreyan prison ship is actually a neat idea, which came as something of a relief when it was revealed (strange though that may sound, seeing how scary the scene was). But it's questionable whether the Time War was the kind of conflict in which either side could afford to take prisoners, and so at that point the idea starts to look shakier. It could be argued that the Time Lords taking prisoners rather than choosing to be ruthless might have been why Gallifrey was destroyed. But it does also make you wonder how many times the Doctor can declare the Daleks extinct and then find he was wrong. Did he really just not know that "millions" of Daleks had been taken prisoner and survived?
Oh, and a time-traveller/dimension-hopper just making contact with the prison ship is all it takes to prime it? If that's their idea of top security, it really is no wonder the Time Lords lost.
And why was it called the Genesis Ark? Did the Time Lords call it that? Strange name for a prison ship. Did the Daleks create the name? Too poetic for Daleks, surely?
The reunion with Pete neatly ties up a number of plot threads laced throughout the last fifteen months (too many to list), although once again the mushy dialogue was laid on a bit thick at times. But it was a good touch that he finally stopped denying that Rose was, in any way that matters, his daughter, and so went back to save her.
The plot resolution is easily the best one that RTD has managed to think up for a story so far; not saying much, I know, but still worth saying. Using this 'void radiation' to syphon back visitors from parallel universes still veers a little towards deus ex machina, but I choose to look on the bright side there. He could easily have resorted to some out-and-out deus ex, dosed over with layers of meaningless technobabble. Like the Doctor opening a trapdoor in the TARDIS, declaring, "If I can invert the polarity of the neutron flow in the negative-ion particle acceleration circuit, while interfacing the TARDIS' engines with the laser containment field of the Dimensional rift, I can give the TARDIS the power increase it needs to suck all the Daleks and Cybermen back out of the physical Universe and grind them to dust in the Eye Of Harmony!" And then he pulls a lever and... hey presto! (Which, let us not forget, isn't all that far from the lazy get-out RTD used at the end of the Eccleston season.)
The scene where the Daleks and the Cybermen were defeated was, undeniably, spectacular, even if it provoked a few unintended laughs. But it was littered with some very silly logic errors that really damaged it.
Firstly, the Daleks were the only ones that were hauled back through the rift. Not one Cyberman was seen to pass through it. (Yes, I know we saw them getting lifted off the ground, but nothing happened to them after that.) And yet, from what the Doctor said later, the Cybermen were clearly gone. This is even more problematic when you consider that some of the Cybermen, like Yvonne, were not from the parallel Earth (although maybe the armour suits were). Also, there didn't seem to be that many Daleks falling through the rift, and yet thousands - maybe millions - were supposedly released from the prison ship.
Why did the lever on the Dimensional mechanism start sliding towards the rift? It appears to have been pulled on by the rift itself, but I was under the impression that the rift would only have a 'syphon' effect on objects that had crossed the void.
I'm also doubtful about how Rose kept the rift from collapsing. Firstly, she was being hauled in the direction of the rift. She grabbed the lever, and pushed it in the opposite direction from the rift. How could she push against the direction she was moving in, if the only thing that was keeping her from flying off altogether was the very thing she was pushing?
Maybe the lever was lighter than it looked? Well okay, but that leaves a follow-up problem. As she was holding onto the lever to stop herself from falling into the rift, how did her weight not cause the lever to start tilting back towards the rift again? The only answers to that would be that the lever was heavy, or tightly-slotted into the mechanism. Except, that brings us full circle; how did she manage to push it back into the 'on' position to begin with, when she was being pulled towards the rift?
Pete emerged at the last instant to stop Rose from tumbling into the rift. The timing and positioning of that move appear to be an outrageously lucky guess on his part, but in any case, he'd crossed the void, and more than once. So how come he wasn't hauled into the rift the instant he appeared?
The plan as a whole has its doubtful side, with several self-contradictions. In Army Of Ghosts, when discussing the voidship, the Doctor says that the Void is absolute nothingness, that there is nothing within there whatsoever; no matter, no energy, no radiation, not even time. Yet the power that he and Rose tap into to draw the Daleks and Cybermen out of the physical universe is described as 'background radiation from the Void.' And how come the Doctor chose to steal two magna-clamps during the firefight in the hangar, when it's established here that he was planning to open the breach on his own?
I'm sure the Supreme Dalek survived, by initiating some kind of 'temporal shift' on itself. Although this is another of those MacGuffins where you wonder, "If they can do that, why have they never used it before?"
Those 3D glasses were really irritating, weren't they? Other than that, this two-parter was clearly David Tennant's most authentic performance as the Doctor so far.
Rose's goodbye scene had to be pretty long I suppose, but it did start to drag on after a while. Nonetheless, it was very touching, and only now it's over do we fully appreciate that Rose did bring quite a bit to the series. She may have run out of steam fairly early in this season, but she was a much deeper character than most of the Doctor's previous companions, and certainly far-better acted than all but a handful. I suspect she'll meet the Doctor of the parallel Earth at some time.
As I said in the notes, I hated that last moment with Catherine Tate. So she's appearing in the Christmas Episode is she? Am I bovvered? Am I bovvered? Do I want turkey and Tate for my Christmas meal? Do I? Am I bovvered? Do I want cheap plugs for the Christmas special? Am I bovvered about the Christmas special when it's still flippin' July? Am I bovvered? No. No I ain't. I ain't bovvered. I's tellin' ya, I... ain't... bovvered!!
But I was very 'bovvered' that she was thrown in at that moment, as it cheapened the effect of Rose's farewell enormously.
From all these faults I've highlighted, it might appear that I really despair at the episode again. And to be honest, by the standards of some other writers who have contributed to the series, it's still very flawed and a bit confused.
But, I repeat, RTD has done far, far worse things on Dr Who than this, and at least this story was exciting, well-paced, iconic, and made enough sense - just. The best strengths of this story may still be a bit fanw*nky, but it had a proper beginning, a proper middle, and a proper ending, one that was reasoned, rather than wave-a-magic-wand junk. There weren't too many 'whacky' moments, nor was there any sense of a series parodying itself. And it was an emotional and worthy send-off for a good character who hung around a bit too long.
I give the two-parter 8 out of 10. On its own, this episode still gets a respectable 7.
P.S. Have you noticed that Torchwood didn't get mentioned very often in this episode, even though they actually appeared in it, and most of it took place inside their HQ? That makes all the gratuitous references to it throughout the season look even more unnecessary and superfluous.
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jul 8, 2006 21:01:40 GMT
Drunk and disorderly monsters by the sound of them!! Ah, that explains why they live in the ice. To keep the beers chilled. If anyone trashes it - I have a noose waiting. *smiles sweetly and exits* *Gulp!* I was busy typing up my review while you were posting that. Fortunately I didn't trash it, so I guess I got lucky! *Smiles sheepishly and exits to change into some drier trousers.* |
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Post by jasmine on Jul 9, 2006 14:46:27 GMT
Storm: You may just have been spared the noose since you obviously went to a lot of trouble to write your review…..and I did say may!
I seriously enjoyed the episode. The Rose and The Doctors farewell had me choked up with tears. And when the tears were rolling down DT’s face I really blubbed. I’m such a romantic – I wanted to hear him say he loved Rose.
"My-army's-tougher-than-your-army-no-my-army's-tougher-than-yours" taunting is just not how Daleks or Cybermen would behave.
I actually agree with you on that Storm (don’t faint)
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Post by Mirela on Jul 9, 2006 15:37:57 GMT
I'm still quite speechless when I think of last night's episode, it was that fantastic. I thought I was going to burst out crying quite a few times...especially when Rose and the Doctor were separated for good. The Daleks vs the Cybermen was wicked as well, I thought it was really funny when the Daleks were taunting the Cybermen. Personally I love Russell's episodes but this was his best so far - go, Russell!  Oh well, that's it then...no more Who 'til Christmas...so it's kind of a "thank you and goodnight" from me from this thread for a while (don't worry I'll keep it open). |
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jul 9, 2006 18:21:40 GMT
Storm: You may just have been spared the noose since you obviously went to a lot of trouble to write your review…..and I did say may! Hey, what do you mean, 'may'? I didn't trash the episode! Well not much.  I did give it a 7... I thought it was really funny when the Daleks were taunting the Cybermen. Yes it was funny, that's why I said I wouldn't slag it off, but it just wasn't suitable dialogue for them. Making the characters act in a way they wouldn't (in this case, couldn't) just for the purposes of a laugh is a sign the writer doesn't know how to write for them, at least not in an entertaining way. As far as I can see, the only time a Dalek would be funny is when its robotic sense of formality is offended, like in the later scene when the Supreme Dalek tells the Doctor and Rose off for interacting socially. That was quite funny too, but also in-character, which makes it easier for the audience to accept them as 'real' Daleks. (It's the old thing about consistency making it easier for people to suspend their disbelief.) |
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Post by arcadia on Jul 9, 2006 21:09:33 GMT
I know! I'm totally taking that as a personal shout out ;D
Anyway, back to the episode. I quite liked it, though there were a large number of plot holes that it's best not to examine too closely. I think I preferred the first half of the story and something just felt a little off in the second half. The Dalek-Cybermen battle didn't really live up to the hype, maybe overshadowed by the send off for Rose and the others, but it was OK. I was amused by the Daleks and Cybermen bitching at each other, but you're right Storm, it is a bit out of character. Fun though.
I liked the epilogue and Roses's farewell - I got a little bit teary.
Overall I give it a B+.
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jul 18, 2006 18:23:40 GMT
The dust has had ten days to settle. Which episode was your favourite of the season? And which one do you think was the worst? For me, the best was The Impossible Planet closely followed by The Girl In The Fireplace. Worst was... oh you guessed! |
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Post by jasmine on Jul 18, 2006 19:34:24 GMT
I rather liked ‘School Reunion’ and thought Anthony Head played a good baddie (bad grammar). The Doctor meeting up with Sarah Jane and K9 again was great viewing.
‘Girl in the Fireplace’ was another good episode. Quite creepy masked figures too. I liked the storyline and thought it was well acted.
‘The Impossible Planet’ with the odd looking Ood creatures looking like they had just vomited spaghetti. (um, sorry if anyone is eating) Can’t decide on a favourite, so I’m going to cop out..
And the worst episode for me was.. *fanfare* ..‘Love and Monsters’ (surprise, surprise huh?) ok, so it had it’s funny moments, but it just didn’t do anything for me I’m afraid. I was totally lost as to what the hell was going on. But there again…I usually am.
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Post by arcadia on Jul 18, 2006 20:11:09 GMT
I thought the best one was School Reunion, then The Impossible Planet
Worst was Fear Her, which had too many cringeworthy moments and seemed aimed at kids
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jul 26, 2006 7:00:49 GMT
I didn't do a real review of New Earth at the beginning of the series, but I watched it again last night and have now reviewed it properly. So if anyone's interested, you can go back to page 6 of this thread where I pasted it in.
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Post by nimagraven on Aug 2, 2006 21:09:56 GMT
Best episode was the Impossible Planet/Satan Pit.
Miles better than Army of Ghosts/Doomsday though that was still very good, I'm not going to get swayed by Rose leaving, the dodgy CGI and the fact the cybermen just happen to get randomly pwned in it.
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I did give it a 7...