Storm
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Post by Storm on Jun 17, 2006 18:47:45 GMT
Love And Monsters is not quite finished yet, but already I can say...
Oh... my... GOD! What the hell is that pile-of-intestines of a story supposed to be? It seems to include everything that's weak/lazy/self-indulgent about Russell T Davis' writing.
The only good thing I can say about it is, at last I can say I've seen a Dr Who story that is definitively worse than Paradise Towers.
If I can bring myself to, I'll do a proper review tomorrow, but that's a big if. This was just terrible.
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Post by jasmine on Jun 17, 2006 19:23:35 GMT
What in gods name was that all about huh? What a crock of Sh*t.
Are we supposed to have enjoyed that?
I didn't even like Peter Kay. Hell I just didn't like anything about this week. I see Torchwood got its mention.
ETA: The beginning was just slapstick.
I'm angry and fed up.
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Post by nimagraven on Jun 17, 2006 19:35:44 GMT
Awesome. I can now sleep at night in comfort knowing that Ursula and Elton pursue a sex life.
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jun 17, 2006 19:40:11 GMT
Welcome to the forum btw, Sarah. Folks, this is the friend of mine I said, "Man, I'm HOT!" to the other day.
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Post by jasmine on Jun 17, 2006 19:52:27 GMT
Welcome to the forum Sarah..  |
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jun 18, 2006 9:03:46 GMT
Well, what can I say? It was just the most embarrassing episode of Dr Who I've ever seen. It seems to be the perfect summary of the downside of Russell T. Davies as a writer.
Don't get me wrong about RTD. In some genres he's quite a fine writer, and even some of his episodes in Dr Who have had patches of good work in them. But there's no denying that most of his work is of a much lower standard than pretty well everything the other writers have produced since the new era of the series began. (Also, his work as script editor has often undermined the quality of other writers' work as well, by crowbarring in so many ill-timed moments of screwball comedy.)
Trying to sum up his failings in a word is not really possible, but the nearest I can manage is the word 'cheap'. He cheapens the dialogue with his puerile love of slapstick and jokes about human biology. He cheapens the tension of plots by introdcuing deus ex machina resolutions - if not outright sorcery - instead of working out a reasoned, clever and comprehensible solution. And he cheapens the storyline by making fannish, gratuitous and unnecessary backward references (and rather smugly, the past episodes he refers to are almost always his own).
The above are all in Love And Monsters in spades; from the rather tired use of yet another monster that goes around absorbing other species (between the Krillitanes and Maureen Lipman, haven't we had enough of that type of monster for one season?), through the sound of Peter Kay's monster breaking wind, through the completely needless attempts to latch its background onto the Slitheen near the end, to the Doctor's technobabbling gobbledegook with the sonic screwdriver to resurrect Ursula. Even the unsubtle suggestions about oral sex with a paving slab in the closing moments have RTD written all over it.
His characterisation is frequently cartoonish, and never more so than here. He spends the first twenty-five minutes laughing smugly at shy people, whom he portrays, almost by definition, as being nerdy, innassertive and overwhelmingly cheesy stereotypes. (The scenes with the 60's-style music and the 'progressive' artwork in particular are thoroughly inane.) Amiable of course, but RTD smugly gives them a clear air of inferiority, making the audience like them for their quaintness rather than for themselves. Then he reintroduces Jackie, and gives us another embarrassing round of her trying to seduce a younger man. Painful to watch, even if it wasn't just a lazy re-hash of her first meeting with the Ninth Doctor. The bit when Elton and Ursula try to come up with a name for the monster while they're talking to it is just tiresome, and it's typical of RTD to then go and recycle the dialogue a scene later for the Doctor to do the same thing. Someone needs to explain to RTD that repetition on its own does not constitute humour. (Not that he'd listen.)
I don't have a problem with jokes in Dr Who, you understand, they've always been there. It's just they used to be subtle and ironic, reinforcing the dramatic atmosphere. When RTD writes for the series, the jokes are loud, crude, biological and inane, generating a zaniness to the atmosphere that doesn't sit well with the programme. I mean, I know it's supposed to be Light Entertainment, but does RTD just not realise that Dr Who is still meant to be a drama, not a spin-off of Men Behaving Badly? But dare to point that out and RTD just sneers that you don't have any sense of humour. (We do actually, Russ, it's just more refined than yours. What we don't like is sh*tty scriptwriting.)
Info-dumps and emotional over-explication often abound in RTD's work, although one mild relief of this episode is that there wasn't too much of it here, at least until the confrontation scene near the end. But also, RTD is always cr*p at getting his scripts to make sense. For instance, it's established that the 'Absorbaloff' has to kill Elton because, now that Elton's seen its real form, it has to make sure that he can't tell anyone about it. So of course, it runs outside in broad daylight in its real form, to chase after him where everyone can see it! I mean, why take such a chance? It's not like people would believe Elton if he told them anyway.
Homosexuality and mysoginy are a rare combination, but I sometimes get the feeling that RTD is the TV industry's first gay mysoginist, as female characters tend to get a pretty raw deal in many of his scripts. In this case, wasn't the Doctor's decision to revive Ursula as some kind of living mosaic a terribly cruel thing to do? She seems to be stuck there as a plaything for Elton whenever he fancies a quick game of 'secrete-the-sausage'. Having her say that being a slab is a "peaceful" feeling just sounds like RTD's trying to tip-toe round the problem.
I've tried very hard to think of some good things to say about the episode. I guess Peter Kay was okay as the 'Absorbaloff', even if it looked even less convincing than the Autons in the 1970's. Not as good as he might've been, but okay.
And... er... er...
No, that's it actually. That's the only mildly good thing I could think of. I was so appalled by everything else that I couldn't even be bothered getting angry at yet another blatant Torchwood plug.
1/10. It avoids hitting the 0/10 mark, because that would only be possible if they forgot to make the episode altogether. (Although come to think of it, it would've made for a far more entertaining evening if they had.)
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Post by Mirela on Jun 18, 2006 15:21:02 GMT
Rules, people - no direct mentions of that kind of you-know-what on this part of the forum! Sorry, but I do have SOME rules to enforce... Oh dear - I do like Peter Kay and that's what made the episode for me. His Abzorbaloff performance was so funny and he was good as "Victor Kennedy" as well. Keeping his accent as the monster was great, made it even funnier! Well, for me at least. It was like this year's version of "The Long Game" - I didn't enjoy it as much because of the storyline, but the guest star made things better. The bits without Peter Kay in it were ok but not brilliant. Welcome to the forum Sarah |
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Post by arcadia on Jun 18, 2006 22:24:57 GMT
Wow, Jas and Storm, you really hated this one! I actually really liked it. It was different and an imaginitive way to give DT and BP a break for one episode. I have no problem with one-off episodes like this that show events from the viewpoint of bystanders, I generally find them really different and interesting. The Doctor and Rose were hardly in it but it had a strong cast, especially Marc Warren, that carried the episode well. I liked the videoblog style and Elton's narration and the use of rapid cuts and flashback/forward to tease us with information. I saw it as an affectionate tribute to fandom and to the people who use fandom to socialise and be creative, and from the comments that RTD made in the Confidentials this week and last I think that he really understands fannish people and is glad of their support of Doctor Who, which is a refreshing change from some programs where the producers etc seem to frown on fandom and be embarrassed by it. I didn't see it as having a go at shy people at all. In fact, as a shy person myself, I wouldn't even have classified any of the LINDA group as shy, or as particularly inassertive either. They were just people who socialise over a shared interest *shrugs* I liked Jackie in seductress mode and also that she proved in the end that she is smarter than she looks. I thought Peter Kay did a good job as well and was really enjoying himself, as the whole cast were. The Abzorbaloff may not have been the subtlest of monsters, but then it was invented by a 9 year old. I didn't find the jokes all that crude either. One minor fart gag? And the implied "lovelife" (*is on best behaviour for Julia!*) bit at the end amused me (in an "ewwww..." way). I didn't find it misogynistic. This episode seems to have really divided people - I've seen either a lot of love or a lot of hate. I think one of the problems people had is that is wasn't much like Doctor Who. Which is one of the reasons I liked it. It was different and as a one off episode I think it worked really well. I'm sorry that some of you were disappointed though  |
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Post by jasmine on Jun 18, 2006 23:02:14 GMT
Yes I'm sorry about that arcadia. I can't lie. I really didn't enjoy it - apart from the odd humourous bits here and there, I just could not get into it this week. I'm so disappointed. I really wish I could have liked it. |
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jun 19, 2006 16:29:18 GMT
I have no problem with one-off episodes like this that show events from the viewpoint of bystanders, I generally find them really different and interesting. Well I didn't have a problem with that either. It wasn't the absence of the Doctor and Rose that bothered me (I never even mentioned it in fact), it was just how badly-written it was. Again, that's not really the problem. They could easily have slotted the Abzorbaloff into, say, School Reunion, and then come up with something a bit fresher here. The problem is that it's not really very different to the Krillitanes or the Wire. They also could have made it look a lot more convincing while sticking to the original design; I thought the outfit they gave Peter Kay was horrendous. There was also the joke about one of the victims being stuck inside the Abzorbaloff's bottom. I think in the general pattern of the way RTD writes female characters, there is a very mysoginistic overtone. But whatever else, I still found it hideously cruel of the Doctor to put Ursula in such a permanent, helpless position just for the sake of making Elton sulk a bit less. If ever there were an implication that women are put on this Earth purely for the sake of pleasing men, that was it, which sounds very mysoginistic to me. So have I. Of the ones who loved it, I'd be interested to learn how many are fans of things like Little Britain. Well yeah, but it's more than that for me. I hated it because it wasn't even drama, let alone Dr Who. If I'd gone into it knowing that it was going to be a brain-free comedy, I might've been watching it in the right mind-set to enjoy it. Well, a bit anyway. But when I watch Dr Who I go in expecting some kind of drama and cerebral experience. Or at least an ironic drama. RTD writes what he thinks is comedy drama, but it isn't even that, it's just farce. You get a more intelligent and serious story watching Red Dwarf, than watching anything this man writes. Can't win 'em all. And I'm glad you saw something to like about it. I'd hate to think everyone was as horrified as I was on Saturday. |
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Post by arcadia on Jun 19, 2006 20:09:41 GMT
I think in the general pattern of the way RTD writes female characters, there is a very mysoginistic overtone. Interesting. I've never got that impression from his writing or heard that other people thought that. Maybe I'm reading the wrong message boards. But whatever else, I still found it hideously cruel of the Doctor to put Ursula in such a permanent, helpless position just for the sake of making Elton sulk a bit less. If ever there were an implication that women are put on this Earth purely for the sake of pleasing men, that was it, which sounds very mysoginistic to me. I just saw it as Ursula being better off alive and still able to think and talk etc than dead or stuck inside the Earth or whatever. Also I kind of took that scene as a bit of a slight on men more than anything - that they are so desperate and enslaved to their urges that they are prepared to get some lovin' from a paving stone. That's where my 'ewww' factor came from. Interesting how people see the same scene in different ways. Of the ones who loved it, I'd be interested to learn how many are fans of things like Little Britain. Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not a Little Britain fan. |
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jun 23, 2006 21:51:16 GMT
I can admit it when I miss something...
I've been watching The Satan Pit again and I heard a line that I missed the first time I saw it, and so suddenly the Doctor's decision to jump into the pit makes a lot more sense; it was the Beast's ancient captors, not the Beast itself, who put that impulse into his mind. There are still numerous other plot-holes and non-explanations in there, but the most important one in the progression of the story is resolved, so I'm re-grading the episode to a 7.
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Post by jasmine on Jun 24, 2006 19:24:02 GMT
I really enjoyed tonights episode - had a lump in my throat a couple of times.
Hee! "look at the hairs on my manly hairy hand"
Scary monster in closet... - things childhood nightmares are made of. (I also looked under my bed)
And....a preview of next weeks episode!! wow!
I may watch it again later. That's all for now....move along.
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jun 24, 2006 19:36:34 GMT
Okay, onto Fear Her. First off, all things are relative, but it's wa-a-a-a-a-a-ay better than the crud that was offered last week. It could just be that my expectations were so massively lowered by Love And Monsters that all of a sudden anything that merely gets the basics right seems like something to applaud. But the point is, it does get the basics right, if no more than that, and that at least means I enjoyed it. It was a mild drama-mystery with a real plot that had a sturdy structure, instead of a pointless self-parody digging for cheap, lazy laughs. Still not the most cerebral episode ever, but a work of philosophical art compared with L&M.
Fear Her is no classic, mind, indeed it felt a little tired; I got the feeling while I was watching that I'd seen it all before, but I couldn't be bothered trying to work out where. This might be why I found myself correctly guessing most of the plot points a moment or two before they were revealed; I heard myself muttering at the screen, "The ginger cat's gonna vanish now... oop, there it goes... Chloe's possessed by an alien child I reckon... I bet Rose gets strangled by a squiggle next... the pod's in the tarmac, the stereotype with the pickaxe just said it himself, search in the tarmac... see, there it is!" etc.
There are still some silly moments, worst being the Doctor's "manly, hairy hand", and DT again goes OTT when he doesn't have to a few times, but at least the humour was a lot less blatant and unsubtle this week. He also got a new manner to portray in the scene when he interrogates Chloe, which is a relief. At last he gets a chance to do something other than the usual tack of playground-schoolboy-meets-revenge-driven-psychopath. If they can just give the Doctor more scenes that vary the mood like that, DT will finally have the chance to prove what a good actor he is, and how appropriate he is for the role.
The Doctor's admission that he was a father once is an interesting moment, and raises the same issue that Sarah Jane raised back in School Reunion. Obviously the Doctor is a father, indeed he's a grandfather. But it's clear that once again he hasn't been letting Rose in on the story; she obviously doesn't know about her first predecessor, Susan. Not mentioning all his past companions is fair enough for reasons I've stated before, but surely the Doctor should've mentioned his grand-daughter before now?
Billie has another stronger outing when the Doctor goes missing again, as in The Satan Pit, and so Rose proves once more that she's come a long way since her debut last year. But I don't know why it's deemed necessary to keep on proving that fact over and over; it was established with her rescue of the Ninth Doctor in The Parting Of The Ways.
The sentiment and 'love-will-save-all' talk in the last fifteen minutes was laid on awfully thick. I especially hated the Huw Edwards commentary as it became more and more littered with cringing, sentimental cliches. "It's not just heat. It's a symbol of hope. A symbol of love." Yeeeeeesh! World of saturday morning 80's adventure cartoons, here we come. Love can make a spacecraft launch? Puh-leeeeaaaze. Oh, and the Doctor's revelation that "There's a storm coming!" is a blatant lift from the end of The Terminator.
The kid playing Chloe was very good by the way, most impressed with her performance.
Not pleased about the blatant giveaway about next week's monsters, but I guess the Radio Times did that months ago anyway. I notice these are the Cybermen from the alternative universe, rather than 'our own'. This means it's now possible to travel between universes, so perhaps Mickey will be making a comeback yet.
Oh well. I'll be generous and give this one a 7, partly because it was such a relief after last week's travesty, but mainly because at least they left the Torchwood mention to the one part of the show where it was impossible to avoid it. Although, as I've been suspecting all the way through this season, so far Torchwood just looks like UNIT with a woman in shades in charge, in place of a Brigadier with a 'tache. So I'm still not sure there's any need for them to be there.
Oh, one more thing, Doctor. Rose wasn't 'deducting', she was 'deducing.' (Deducting means to take away, which was what Chloe was doing.)
EDIT: I've realised where I saw it all before; the scenario is almost identical to Idiot's Lantern. A cosy, non-descript, out-of-the-way street in England's capital where the pleasant locals, most of whom wouldn't say boo to a goose, are infiltrated by some weird alien entity, and people start vanishing while someone is very scared that their 'shameful secret upstairs' will be discovered. Even the Doctor and Rose pretending to be Police was recycled from there.
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Post by arcadia on Jun 25, 2006 14:43:54 GMT
Heh, this week Jas and Storm both liked it and I hated it! Well no, I wouldn't go as far as 'hated', but it's definitely my least favourite episode since the revival. And a lot of it is for the reasons that you mentioned, Storm. The plot was pretty tired and I felt I had seen a lot of it before - people trapped in a picture, the little girl who just has to believe in herself to make the nightmares go away etc. I found my attention wandering after the first 20 minutes or so. And then towards the end it just got so cheesy and cliched that I couldn't help laughing. I agree. A "Beacon of Love"?? I was cringing. And the Doctor picking up the torch and lighting the flame - I was snorting with laughter at that point. Well spotted! I hadn't thought of that. No wonder it seemed so familiar. Not one of the better episodes, I'm only giving it a C+. Next week looks good though. Plus I've read spoilers that make sound even better. You'd better not disappoint me, Doctor Who! I missed it, but apparently Huw Edwards mentioned Torchwood in his commentary after the people in the stadium vanished as well. Just mentioning it because I know how you love the Torchwood references Storm!  ETA: One thing I did like was the banter between the Doctor and Rose this week - they were cute together. And also the Doctor being so excited about this mysterious thing that is happening that he doesn't take it seriously at first, which seems to be a characteristic of Ten. |
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